Comments on: Online Church Part 2: Worship & the Theology of Presence https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/ A look at how trends in communication technology impact individuals and organizations. Mon, 06 Feb 2023 20:28:08 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.2 By: sr 7b https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/comment-page-2/#comment-204118 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:56:26 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-204118 […] … 54 30 Elm 7B 3 08/13/2007 $222,000 $225,000 109 06476319 CLSD AT $239,900 109. 55 30 Elm …Online Church Part 2: Worship & the Theology of Presence …In the discussion surrounding Online Church Part 1: What is a Biblical Church? it seems that […]

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By: 10 Things I Learned from the Online Church Blog Series « Christian Web Trends Blog by OurChurch.Com https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/comment-page-2/#comment-191598 Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:45:46 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-191598 […] Worship & the Theology of Presence […]

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By: William Haller https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-190860 Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:37:28 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-190860 I would not rule out where computers and technology will be at many years from now (or even just a few). I learned to program with punched cards on an IBM mainframe. Those days are long passed, but I’m a more careful programmer than the kids today who can cut and paste and recompile and crash and burn in a couple of seconds.

All of the comments, the leading article, and the book excerpts give examples of humans benefiting in virtual settings and talk about the benefits of their virtual presence (soldiers, shut-ins, and the like). How does God Himself work through a virtual environment? It is His presence I’m concerned about people experiencing.

At this point, technology, cost, and bandwidth issues would prevent the church service I attend in the real world from being effectively done in a pure computer driven environment (specifically with a completely distributed member base). I’m not willing to say that would never be possible or cost effective but it isn’t now.

The problem is only partially the downstream feeds from the church. Not everyone has a computer, let alone a high speed internet connection. They would not be able to participate, just as the shut-ins can’t participate the other way today. Even if they could, most networks are managed for downloading. Uploading bandwidth is limited even on most “high speed” connections. So the effective participation that we would get in a virtual service from a real world audience would be limited at best.

Some denominations might not find that an issue, but I would feel much was missing if there was no effective way for the Holy Spirit to work through His gifts with a particular group of members and have that transmitted to the entire body. This is especially true when the members might change from week to week.

I’m not saying God couldn’t find a way to work around those situations, but I’m constantly reminded of His unchanging attributes when I think that. There certainly were occasions in the Old Testament where people presumed to think they could do things a bit differently and found out that they not only couldn’t but would be struck dead for trying it.

We must be careful in what we do. The printing press opened up the words of God to common man and made it affordable. I’m not against change if God is with it. I just want to be sure He supports a particular path before trudging out there myself. It can be lonely on point if the army doesn’t decide to follow.

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By: Neal Locke https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189959 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:02:27 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189959 Richard. Of the Devil? Seriously?

Well, here's one place I think you're off: "Church attendance will decrease, the offerings will decrease…" Yeah, these things have been happening across the board in western Christianity LONG before online churches came on the scene. Even churches that are growing are only doing so at the expense of other churches. The kingdom (in the west, at least) is shrinking. On the contrary, if you count online churches in the mix, they offer the possibility of an increase in church participation and offerings. But from your comment above, I doubt you'd be open minded or far sighted enough to count online churches as churches at all. Good thing (for my online church) that Jesus is the groom and not you 🙂

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By: Marilyn Fisher https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189954 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:00:34 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189954 I agree with you completely Mark. I was thinking of another avenue that I haven't seen attacked lately that should be held more to accountability (on-line Schools). We Christians know that we are going to come under attack whenever, where ever and however we go about spreading and sharing Gods Word. "I have been in some very Distracting PHYSICAL Church Services," that after the service I had to approach the Sr. Pastor about the problem. When in a Worship Service the focus is on The Lord and the Message, not on a game, not on work, not on email, tweeter or anything else. Yes, I participate in chat for 30 minutes after the official service is over. Our chat feature is enabled for 15mins. before the service so that we can receive prayer request and praise reports then it shuts down, our online giving function is active before and after also for those logged into the service.
I don't know about Holodeck yet, but I'm not going to be close minded to anything that The Lord (might) see fit to set into action…….Through Him ALL Things Are Possible..

Rev. Marilyn Fisher

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By: Richard https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189953 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:57:37 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189953 This idea is of the devil. The only thing it will acomplish is church attendance will decrease the offerings will decrease and God will not get the Glory He deserves. " Unto Him be glory in the Church" Eph 3:21 not online.. You can preach on line share your witness on line but Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 the gates of hell shall not prevail against her" the Her is His church that will be married to Him at the great wedding found in Rev. 19:7-8.. The onliners may be guest at the wedding, but that is questionable Also not all church members will be involved in the wedding. It takes faithfulness to the Groom's commands.. No one can be baptized on line..First commandment after trusting Jesus as their personal Savior..Matthew 28:19-20..Then they become teachable and it is a choice one has to make. Romans 12:1=2

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By: Richard https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189942 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:54:04 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189942 This idea is of the devil. The only thing it will acomplish is church attendance will decrease the offerings will decrease and God will not get the Glory He deserves. ” Unto Him be glory in the Church” Eph 3:21 not online.. You can preach on line share your witness on line but Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 the gates of hell shall not prevail against her” the Her is His church that will be married to Him at the great wedding found in Rev. 19:7-8.. The onliners may be guest at the wedding, but that is questionable Also not all church members will be involved in the wedding. It takes faithfulness to the Groom’s commands.. No one can be baptized on line..First commandment after trusting Jesus as their personal Savior..Matthew 28:19-20..Then they become teachable and it is a choice one has to make. Romans 12:1=2

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By: Mark Meyer https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189743 Sun, 06 Dec 2009 15:13:24 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189743 I think Neal makes some great points… While "We're not there yet"…. our ability to grow, maintain, and learn how to "do" relationships virtually is growing quickly. For myself I can say there are people I'm getting to know online, whom I've never met, but am learning and sharing with them regularly through blogs, Twitter, etc. If we limit what we call "church" to having to be "present", we have a mountainous challenge ahead of us as the masses are naturally congregating on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and other online venues in this. Facebook has over 300 millions users and growing. Why not attempt to bring the church to where people are already hanging out?

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By: Kicking Off an In-Depth Conversation About Online Church « Christian Web Trends Blog by OurChurch.Com https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189564 Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:36:49 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189564 […] Dec 3: Worship & the Theology of Presence. Scripture calls believers to gather together regularly to worship God & that when we gather together God is present with us.  Can people in a virtual church really be present together even though they are not physically present?  And can God be present in that setting? […]

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By: Neal Locke https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/online-church-2-worship-theology-presence/#comment-189435 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 00:22:46 +0000 https://www.ourchurch.com/blog/?p=1106#comment-189435 Love the holodeck metaphor, Paul — especially because the producers and writers of the show (Star Trek: TNG) explored both the positive AND the negative side of that kind of virtual reality Holodeck recreation and collaboration, but also Holodeck addiction, malfunction, etc. Wharf even used the Holodeck for religious rites!). I hope people remember that technology is neither inherently good nor evil in itself: it brings about great promise…and great peril, and usually both, depending on who is using it for what. I'm just saying that the future (and completely realistic virtual reality) is coming one way or another…will we find ways to use it for God's purposes?

"Make it so, number one!"

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